Tipping – Beta Test
Over the next few days, Cam4 will be testing a new tipping feature. On participating cams, you will see a tipping panel below the cam window. If you are a Gold members you will receive 250 free tokens to tip these performers. You also purchase tokens and tip the performers as a means of expressing your appreciation for a performance.
Once the tip system has proven stable, we will allow all people on Cam4 to accept tips.
We encourage you to tip your favorite performers and give us feedback on this new feature. Please ask us questions or give us your opinion by email at Cam4 support
Cam4, as always, will remain free. Cam4 will always be free to view cams, free to chat and free to broadcast your cam. You will not need to purchase tokens or even accept tips as a performer. If you do receive tips you will be cash them out for cash or donate them to the charity of your choice.
We think this will create new and exciting ways for people to interact as well as encourage more people to use Cam4.
Hey,
Sent the mail containing the id to collect a payment, how long before it is verified?
gillian
Usually the same business day.
i tink is gr8 ideea because to have best atmosfere and to perform or enjoy best is important that u have good financial status ;) so
pple have funn and money can be donate so who dont want to perform please donate the tips for charity
Rain, token whores infecting the site? Give me a break. Actually, a lot people on this like to spend money to see a good show. I perform on this site and it takes a lot of effort to put on a good show to satisfy a tipper. For instance, I do private shows in private mode and spend the whole time masturbating and sticking a dildo up my ***. So, a reputation system would not only help serious performers, but also help tippers see what is a scam and what is not.
I would also someday like it to show that I’m in a private show instead of showing that the room is password protected.
Separate us serious performers from the free cams someday please.
Love,
Ashton
Taking a while on that reputation rating system isn’t it? I’m guessing that once that system is up the amount of tips will decline, which will reduce site income due to the large number of token whores infecting the site. That of course has not impact on the implementation schedule, does it?
Rain, we haven’t decided how and if we will implement this system. This has nothing to do with the amount of tips people will get. There are concerns about abuse of the system and it’s actual value unless that can be addressed.
I cannot wait until a 1-5 star reputation system is implemented on the site. There are so many legit performers like myself and others that should be able to have some kind of rating showing that we do deliver. This would also ward off the tipping scammers.
– Ashton Talon
i saw something today that made me sick, a performer set tips for 5000 for promising something and got them then ran off his name was JONZY5, i will never tip a performer after seeing that lol i feel bad for all the people who tipped
Alex,
We credit tokens to anyone that has been involved in fraud.
Man, the tokens really have women showing their true colors. Granted the tip system has created an influx of “pro performers,” but so many women that used to get on and play for fun are now singing the mantra of “X number of tips before I do this or that.” Just like a woman. They smell money and sex becomes a tool rather than a joy – a mere means to a monetary end rather than the end itself for their own enjoyment. (Unfortunately on the flip side guys are stupid and will throw money at them in the hopes of just a peek of boob.)
It also needs to be changed from a “tip” to something else. A tip is a gratuity to show appreciation for services rendered – paid after the fact. This is more of an “entry fee” or a bidding war than a tip system. Maybe change the counter to “auction leader” since the women aren’t really performing for tips to be icing on the cake but auctioning themselves off to the highest collective set of bidders. That’s not a judgment call. It’s just so hilarious how quickly the female users’ tunes changed when they smelled money.
Biggy,
Although you make a good point, there is still one problem. Viewers sometimes get hostile when they tip someone that was accepting tokens for fun, but the tippers were expecting to see action and nudity, then they get angry and hostile with the performer, I have witnessed this when viewing other cams. I still think it is a good idea to separate pay performers from non serious “performers”.
I think having all the cams together actually makes more sense. Everyone is now a legitimate Cam4 performer, the ones who were in the paypal section before are now accepting a cam4 payment method and those who were previously free can have a donation in appreciation for the shows that they offer.
Tipping will in time add a new dimension to the site when more viewers take up the payment system but it will only work if all performers are in the same place.
Most performers who were offering free shows before tipping are now accepting tokens and it is easy to navigate somewhere else if you dont like it.
Admin,
(another idea)
Alot of other performers also agree that a public reputation system is a good idea. It is very stressful not having a public rating on our cams like other sites have. We just want out viewers to know that we deliver and are legit and it would also allow people that tipped there hard earned money to give feedback.
Admin,
Just an idea:
I think (just in opinion) that it would alleviate some confusion that viewers endure to separate the token performers from the free cams, perhaps in separate sections. All of the cams are mixed up and if they were in separate sections, people that want to view free cams would go to the “free cams” section so to speak.
Separating the free cams and pay cams to different sections would work better in my opinion because alot of people like the to view the free cams, while alot of people also like to pay to see something fun happen.
The free cams would have there own section and the pay cams would be on the main page, but I know that would take alot of programming.
This would work because people would of course go to the free cams section to view free cams.
This would also generate more revenue to the website.
Bottom line: I just feel it is a little sloppy to have all the cams mixed up again. :(
Again, this is just a though I wanted to put out there.
Everyone is currently indicating “59K”.
It seems strange how 59,000 users have clicked that button.
Splatador and Bernd,
although in a sense and morally you are right, but technically and legally you are wrong. And if you do not like performers that do shows for money, that you should watch one of the other 900-100 free cams.
Also, I do not think this is a rant and bash blog, this blog relates to the tipping system.
And, I am still not a prostitute. I pay my bills the way that I like to, and if you don’t like it, that is fine. Keep your morals to yourself.
Anyway, the tipping system only improved the site in my opinion.
-Ashton
Ok, the problem is solved…so u can delete my last message,
I did, but noone is answering. I wrote to the webmaster and he said that most of the people who want tips write tips…and thats all….
Admin, I have a question. But billing contact never answers my e-mails. I have a temporary gold membership, but I am trying to upgrade back to my monthly gold membership, how can I do this? There is no button anywhere on the website.
Also, am I allowed to go into private mode with the highest tipper? Or is that my choice? I have gone private before with the highest tipper and this something gets viewers very hostile, so I have stopped, and let everyone watch. This question is very important to me, please answer.
Thank you.
Ashton
Your gold automatically upgrades to a monthly membership if you do not cancel it.
Yes, you can setup a private room and invite other people or if the performer has a gold membership, they can create a private room and invite you.
Maybe you should get yur facts straight before leaving a post that reads like “BAW BAW IM NO WHORE”. Get those tears out of your eyes and go whore some money
The word “prostitution” can also be used metaphorically to mean debasement or working towards an unworthy cause. In this sense, “prostituting oneself” or “whoring oneself” the services or acts performed are typically not sexual
Hey….i was on cam4 with my cam opened. and my description was:
Huge cock pay show $$. And you banned me, because u said i cant do paypal shows. Pay show mean that i dont do shows for free….i do it only for tips. So why u banned me?
How can i now get unbanned?
Please help me.
Mat,
Write kim@cam4.biz and she will help you out.
@Ashton Talon:
Us get real? You get real. You are deluding yourself:
prostitution |ˌprästəˈt(y)oō sh ən|
noun
the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment.
There IS sexual activity, and money changes hands, so it IS prostitution. Granted, It’s not an illegal form of it, simply because lawmakers are way behind the times on tech stuff.
Even if you were able to successfully argue that this is not “technically prostitution” the reality is that virtually everyone considers such performers to be prostitutes.
A woman who receives anal sex but refuses vaginal sex may be a “technical virgin” but no one is gonna buy that, either.
I agree with TJman,
A reputation system would ward off the guys who sit there, do nothing, collect tokens and promise to do things and then never deliver.
Reputation system ideas:
1. A rating of 1-5 stars meter on every performer’s profile, allowing users to rate each performer.
2. A user questionnaire consisting of a series of questions and other prompts for users.
New section idea:
I also think there should be a new section added for free performers titled something like “free cams” to stop the confusion. (I know, the Paypal section was removed) I also believe this would benefit the website, and make other people using this website alot happier.
For example: two guys were on cam today sitting around showing there faces, and every five minutes they would just flash there junk then sit back down and laugh about it. (using the token system as a joke)
Viewers would rather pay tokens and see a good show, instead of being manipulated and lied to by non-serious performers.
(I used to perform as a webcam model on another website, and the pay was horrible. I think the pay-rate on Cam4 is very reasonable, if not perfect.)
– AshtonTalon
Webcam Model
To whoever thinks that the tipping system promotes prostitution, get real. This is a webcam sex site, not a whore house. There is no actual sex, there is no prostitution.
I am a webcam performer, not a prostitute. I do accept money to perform shows, but I am not a prostitute.
People should get there facts straight before leaving comments on this blog.
I am extremely pleased by this new tipping feature, and I appreciate the hard work you guys have put in to bring this into effect. I have been performing and doing paypal shows on here since June 2010, but now I don’t need to because the new tipping feature is easier and more professional. I think if this is the best way to go for the site, and it will encourage other performers to perform better. I do know there are girls/guys who perform for free, but the tipping feature does not phase them. Most people should know, that sites like this do need to make money too, and if they are helping me make money in the process, then I don’t see a problem. It is a win-win situation.
Thank you for implementing this new feature.
Admin, here’s a solution to the scams I’ve been seeing a lot of on your site in the past week. People will say they will do something at 1000 tips then never deliver. They get the money for free and our wasted time. Implement a reputation system. Much like eBay. If they don’t deliver, we can give them bad rep, warning future viewers not to trust their “promises” and waste their money. With the way things are now, the system is being taken advantage of and it needs fixing.
TJman that is a good idea. We already have a reputation system that we use internally based on reports of the users of Cam4. Perhaps now is a good time to make that public.
Have a few thoughts on the tipping issue (the present implementation of which I do not much care for):
1- You have missed the main “draw” of your own site. It was (until tipping as you have it now) one of the only places on the Internet where you could go to see people erotically enjoying themselves with other adults for the sake of such enjoyment. That added a spice to it all that no pay site will ever have including your new methodology.
2- It is good that you will be programming an option for people not to take tips. You need to go one step further of setting up categories of free Males, Females, Shemales and Couples. Cam4 needs to be returned to where you can participate in free cams without having to guess which are free. Choosing bnot to take tips will automatically add your cam to such a category.
3- Keep tipping as it is as well as adding the idea above. People will shift between tip-cams and free-cams and you will still make money, afford menoey0making opportunities to otheres AND preserve your unique and interesting adult community as a community.
I have enjoyed your site a lot ion the past, I still do although less now. I do hope you will consider all the above. Thank you.
Hmm, not sure this or my previous comments will be approved as theey’re not a glowing endorsement of the new tipping /pay to show facillity…….
“Your comment is awaiting moderation. This is just a spam counter-measure, and will only happen the first time you post here. Your comment will be approved as soon as possible.”
Oh well………..
Well done, you’ve got what you wanted. To become a FULLY FLEDGED PAYCAM SITE! Same as all the other thousands out there.
There was a sexy charm in being able to have a page of amateurs to go to,
but it’s already changing.
It’s amazing how you’re managed to start turning girls who did it for kicks, Into girls that charge for sex…..
I don’t think it’s morally wrong to get a sexual kick anonymously through cam.. (it’s safe and no more wrong than have sex with your partner, no ones harmed).
Make money by all means we all understand that, but I do feel you have now by instigating this so called tipping which should be renamed ‘pay and show’ judging by how it’s being adopted as crossing the the line from
innocent amateurs to professional sex trade workers…..
YOU MUST BE VERY PROUD!!!!!
Knox,
Cam4 is still a free site. You view the cams for free, you chat for free, you broadcast for me. You don’t have to tip and I guess you don’t. So I think I’m safe to say that you use Cam4 for free. So it’s not a FULLY FLEDGED PAYCAM SITE!
The amateur that where here before are still here. I see them all the times. There are thousand of cams that are free, amateur with people not asking for anything.
Many of these amateurs are happy to receive some appreciation in the form of cash. Many could use the money. You are getting your entertainment out of it. I don’t see anything wrong with them making a dollar. More power to them. I am happy to support them.
It has it good points and its bad points! the new tipping i think they should give the broadcaster the option of whether they want to turn the feature on or off to make money having that feature automatically is going to get the performer to work for tokens, money and in the last few days people have stop showing unless they get tipped and you can spend quite alot of money before they will do a show, or show anything! OR they could have another section for shows with tokens, its turning me off cam4 like the other pay sites, id rather go to a site that has free videos, or pay a one small fee, also being a gold member i can only open one cam now instead of several others like before and the other thing that bothers me is the video screen size, small or full screen why cant you do a in between size like medium, small is just that you cant get the full viewing pleasure and full screen is to blurry unclear! have more options on video screen size for viewing! Im losing interest fast!
Matt,
We will make the tipping optional for broadcasters. Gold members can view multiple cams. That has not changed. I checked your email in the database and I don’t see a gold membership or even a free membership under that email address. I can only assume you have not even created an account or that is not the email address you use for your gold membership. If you are a gold member contact kim@cam4.biz and she will investigate why you cannot view multiple cams. It should work. It does for other gold members.
The resolution is determined when encoding starts. It can only be encoded and stream in one resolution. We chose a size that was large enough and fast enough for most users on the site. Anything larger would be too slow for most users. When it goes full screen, it’s just a stretched version of the encoded resolution so it could look grainy depending on the size of your monitor.
Seems the option to turn off tipping per cam should have been in place before this went live. By leaving it active Cam4 is getting free money from girls that do not want to whore themselves by accepting tips but are still getting tipped. Regardless of what admin said about rooms getting hostile even without tipping(which of course they did), it certainly adds another dimension to the hostility, “I paid for you whore, do what I say now.”
Wyk3d,
Really thought that people that didn’t want to use tipping, just wouldn’t use it. This is in fact happening. Only a few people have asked to explicitly turn it off. People that don’t want to tip should just go look at other cams. There is no need to get hostile with the performers about it. If they do get hostile they should get banned.
Hi, I was just wondering what the number in the small speech bubble means on a profile, it’s next to the Facebook button? Mine is 259K but I’ve seen a few different ones.
Thanks!
Ooliver,
That facebook like button is for the Cam4 website. So that is number of people on Cam4 that clicked on that button,
OK, the Rubicon has been crossed. But how about replacing the old $ page with an “Amateurs Only” page for those who have disabled the tipping feature? I am seriously wasting a lot of time sorting out which cams are for play and which ones are for pay.
On the plus side, it IS fun to see who the “Tip Leader” is, so we all know who to make fun of.
Also glad to see you are considering other Gold Member pricing. I’d gladly pay the current rate to be gold for a year, but not per month.
@Kim: I think the gap between “100 viewers for tits” and “100 tokens for tits” is wider than you think. The first is a gimmick in a popularity contest, the second is a gavel in an auction.
@Someone: Your use of the race card is ridiculous, even offensive, and you should be ashamed to have posted it. It was a pathetic and desperate attempt to inject a highly emotional red herring into a discussion where is has no relevance. Besides, discriminating against your own people for economic reasons isn’t racism – it’s capitalism.
Rubicon,
The option of amateur page may be possible once we implement the ability to turn off the tipping for broadcasters. The programmer have that on the to do list.
This is just a massive error, you site is just being abused by paypal scammers, and people playing videos asking for tips, at no stage should someone playing an obvious video be able to get 3000+ viewers and even receive tips
Ghandi,
Anyone asking for paypal will be deleted. Anyone showing video will be deleted. Anyone scamming will be deleted. Tokens will be returned for anyone that was scammed. If you have been scammed tokens, please report it.
dear admin, i understand all your explanations, but i think you must put a section like was old pay section for people asking money, everithing will be more clear, now is becoming like a pay-site, there are a lot of new performers and many videos asking tips, i think taht mixing all kinds of cams in the same sections makes the loosing of the amateur porpouse.
Raggio,
Everyone can tip and be tipped. So having a pay area would have everyone in it. That is the reason it was removed
When we receive your money, it will be like getting payed for a job? Or what type of pament is that?
Mat,
You can receive payments for the tokens that you have earned by Check, Wire, and Western Union. See Cam4Bucks for more information.
The only thing i disagree is the “$” (aka paypal) section deletion.
The offering/sale of private shows *outside cam4* does not have
nothing to do with the tipping system, in my opinion. As far i can understand the tips are intended to be “gifts”, not “pay per view”
Mixing these two type of broadcast is wrong, and does make people confused.
I saw some of those “pro” cam girls being insulted, harrassed, and threatened to be reported for abuse, just because they are asking money (so what? That is their job).
Hi,
a couple of observations.
The tipping system seems to be open to scammers playing videos and claiming tips. For example, yesterday someone was broadcasting a recording of girlnextdoor69 using an account with a similar name (grlnxdoor69), now deleted. How can you ensure that the broadcaster is really live and not a video? On a similar note, I’ve seen a Russian site re-broadcasting cam4 cams in real time, the opposite is obviously possible and could get tips, and is also a copyright violation.
There also seems to be a possible legal problem, in the UK prostitution is legal, but pimping is not. I do not know about other countries. As you take a cut of the tips, this could be construed as pimping. I wonder if you might find the site blocked in some countries because of this.
Just my 2 tokens.
Stoned,
Appreciate the tokens ;-).
Please report any fraudulent users. We will delete the fraudulent users and return the tokens to the tippers.
I don’t believe it’s possible to re-broadcast cam4 in real time but if you saw it, please let me know the URL.
Our lawyers assure us that this is not illegal. We are not promoting prostitution.
I know that its easier with a bank wire, but we can have some problems with the taxes if it pass via the bank..
The tipping feature should NOT be activated for a broadcaster until they register their info with cam4 to be able to receive their tokens. People are tipping girls that aren’t asking for tokens and that have no intention in claiming them, and are expecting a show in return. This makes for a very hostile chat when the broadcaster doesn’t want to show. Little do these people know is that they are actually tipping cam4 and not the broadcasters.
J
Once someone has performed on Cam4, they have an account automatically setup at Cam4Bucks with the same username and password that they used on Cam4. On https://www.cam4bucks.com they can cash out their tokens.
Unfortunately chat can get hostile when people don’t show on cam4 regardless of if people tipped them or not. Some people are just assholes.
Hey, when we receive enough tips, can we receive the payment on our paypal account?
When i give u my informations (name, surname and all). Will they be private? Or u public it where…our name and adress?
I saw that u send payments via fedex or ups…do u send them in Slovenia to?
And what we receive via fedex?….money directly or what?
Mat,
We cannot pay out tokens via paypal because they do not allow transactions for sexual services or websites. You can receive payouts via check (mail/courier), bank wire or Western Union at the moment. You can cash out your tokens at https://www.cam4bucks.com and also get more info there.
Yes we could fedex a check to Slovenia, but it may be cheaper to do a bank wire, depending on the amounts.
Hey! So I recieved 500tokens on cam4 once. But how can I spend them on someone else?
Lynnie,
The tips you earn can be cashed out at https://www.cam4bucks.com but currently they cannot be used to tip others. We hope to add that functionality soon as many people have asked for.
Admin, you said: “C4A, I have to disagree with you. I’m looking at the main page and out of 45 people, one has set a goal in the tipping system.”
You must not be on all day. The majority of the women, in the female section, are charging OUTRAGEOUS goals for their “Shows”. I’ve seen women, who will charge a goal of 10000 tips, then do nothing.
One host by the name of “BBWPretty”, is charging large amounts of tips to do things. Once she she gets a certain amount, she leaves, then comes back a hour later, to do the same thing. But the kick is, all she does is remove her bra, but she promises a show, and never really delivers.(Just sit in her room, and my point will be proven)
She’s not the only one. Admin, you must be in denial, this feature is a failure for users, like me, who enjoy the free users.
When you tip at a strip club, restaurant, or a delivery person, you are thanking them for the service they’ve done.
Herein Cam4, you have hosts, asking for tips, and they haven’t even done a service, yet. On you guy’s part this is a great money making opportunity, but are you willing to sacrifice the popularity of Cam4 for a buck?
I would gladly pay for a gold membership, if it was a lower price. But i cannot support a tipping system that is knowingly being used to scam tippers.
It’s obvious you’re in denial about the failure of this feature, but i would only ask that you reform this feature, or bring in heavy monitoring. Cam4 has made a dramatic turn for the worse.
C4A,
I saw her cam. None of the people that gave tips to BBWpretty complained about her. They liked her and they tipped her. If you don’t like her and others that ask for tips, then don’t watch their cams.
If you like free users as you say then my suggestion would be to watch the cams of people that do not ask for tips.
I think the $ section should be restored. The site looks a lot like a $ site, the girls that used to visit this site will go to your ‘clon’.
hi admin u mean the cammers get 1 cent per token not sure this is a good idea? why cant we have a page for those seeking tips?
Smoothbi,
It’s a good idea for the performers. They like it.
There is no page for people seeking tips because you can tip everyone.
I’m confused what Cam Site you are watching, Someone. I’ve seen more naked bodies in the last few days than prior. There really is no difference in someone stating “100 viewers and shirt comes off” than “100 tokens and shirt comes off” except you’re more likely to get 100 tokens before the 100 viewers in some rooms.
For the most part, those that were showing for free before still are and most of the girls that are requesting tips state so in their status bar so you can see that before clicking and entering their rooms.
I realize that change is difficult for many, but this appears to be a load of fuss over nothing. No one is forcing anyone to be paid or to pay, it’s totally optional.
And as someone that takes care of support there have been no complaints of girls taking tips and not following through with their promise. The easiest solution is if you don’t like those that tip, remain out of those rooms.
Kim
If you do not notice the somewhat negative effect this is already having then you’re blind. IE you have more female cams but alot of them are obviously only there for $$.
I’m glad I came to this site months ago. I have my favs/friends and a pretty good sense of who is here for fun and who is not. New people though will likely not even bother and just go to ***** or the 500,000 other free chat but pay for anything sites.
I don’t think this is the end of the world but I think its a mistake.
Aname,
More female performers are a positive effect. I agree. You don’t have to tip them.
User says, “Highest Biggers gets a Prvt show”
User says, “Strip for tips”
User says, “Tips for Show”
User says, “Keep on tipping guys”
User says, “Bigger Tips!”
User says “Tokens get me poken”
User says, “Cant cam for free, I’m Poor”
User says “200 Tips for Tits”
I’ve not included the broadcasters names, but that’s just on the main screen this Saturday evening when I visited.
I really hope not all the fun free girls leave Cam4, now all the Pay Chicks are moving in. If so Cam4 will die.
I know you guys have to pay the bill and make an income but I agree with others lowering Gold membership would have been a much better move for all.
Stookie,
We are exploring options to lower Gold membership prices or offer lower price packages with different options such as multiple cams only. We hope to test these out in the coming months.
Please clarify…there will be an option, or there won’t be an option because Cam4 needs to make money and allowing the option to be turned off will cut into Cam4’s income?
Juli_love
We will create an option for performers to not accept tips on their cams.
Admin, please explain how this is supposed to be optional?? I DO NOT see anything under profile management. I DID NOT see anything in the broadcast window to turn off the feature.
EVERY cam has that bar across the bottom. I did not want to bitch till I tried broadcasting to see if it truly was an option to have the tip bar. There was sweet f* all I could do as a broadcaster to prevent someone from using the tipping system.
Please. Explain what I am missing here.
36gg,
It’s not optional now. Once we sort out the programming and everything is stable, we will program this option.
Re: #2373
I didn’t want to imply that you should completely remove your tipping system and advertising isn’t really a problem for me. Maybe I wasn’t completely clear with my proposal: the small tipping widget should really only appear if a broadcaster explicitly wants it; otherwise, if the broadcaster never cashes out, so to speak, cam4 will get all the money received from the tokens that were spent, right? From a business perspective that’s probably the perfect outcome for you: quasi-employees that don’t need to be paid. All it does is change the behaviour of the broadcasters that had no intention to make money through camwhoring. Which is a shame.
Also, like I mentioned, users can be made aware of the tipping system right when they sign up and can choose whether they want to make use it or not and you can make existing users aware of it by sending an e-mail or an internal cam4 message.
By the way, how does showing the tipping widget to users generate revenue (as opposed to advertising)?
James,
We figured that if performers didn’t want tips, they just wouldn’t ask for them.
The tipping widget is displayed to all so that they are aware of it.
Now guys that used to take their clothes off right away and start masturbating spend hours with their clothes on trying to reach their gold.
This even creates racism as viewers from 3rd world countries can’t afford dollars and now they’re discriminated against even by their own people who want viewers from the 1st world.
I believe more people would show off and more people would buy tokens if tipping becomes mandatory, in a pay per view model.
For instance, it could cost 1 token every 15 minutes to watch one channel. Because the first 15 minutes would remain free, the original business model remains, and you aren’t breaking your word: One can still watch a channel for free, but get disconnected every 15 min (and hence likely loses it’s chatting capability)
On the contrary, popular channels with 2500 watchers, each paying 4 token per hour, potentially bring 10000 tokens to the performers, which is a lot of money :)
Congratz on turning cam4 in xxxx, i feel i was chatting with average girls last week and now am obliged to deal with whores who ask for money even to say hi and other “clients” who gets mad if the girls dont do what they paid for…
Would it be possible to totally blend out the tipping feature, unless enabled, by default? My suggestion would be that during sign up a user can be made aware of cam4’s token system and if they feel inclined to make use of it they can activate it by going through cam4bucks or however it’s done. All existing users obviously still have the option to activate it under their profile settings. As suggested before, the profiles that have tipping enabled can then be identified by an icon or even better would be bringing back the pay section :D.
It’s sad that cam4 is losing its amateurish nature like this. It would have been more favourable, in my opinion, to do this on a secondary site (e.g. make a copy of cam4.com and host it on cam4bucks.com). In some respect you basically overtook the role of the idiots one saw/sees in chat sometimes: “hey bb, i wanna pay for a show, pm me.” Those that end up agreeing probably would’ve shown for free, but after that the fun is ruined for everyone (including for the broadcasters). They didn’t come here to show for money; they came for the attention and fun that can be had.
If the tipping system is going to stay in place in its current state could you please use the word “free” less and “pay, money, hehesuckers” in the pages’ titles, search keywords, etc. more? Someone is going to end up having to pay for a girl to flash her vag which makes it anything but free.
James B.
We could allow you to turn off the tipping system as well as all the advertising on the site. But we wouldn’t make any money and then would have to shut the site down because we couldn’t pay our bills.
The site is still free for you to view the cams, chat with the girls or broadcast your own cam for free.
Hi, I wanted to ask why they took the area of $ many girls we had this unique way of working, the tip area is difficult, please can you tell if $ zone will be back, many girls are left without work, which relied on the work of Cam4
Sad, You can still do all the things you did in the $ section. Nothing changed except that you cannot ask for paypal or external sources of payment. You must use the tipping system for payments. Paypal will delete your account if they know that you use it to sell sex. Once you’ve lost an account and had your funds frozen, it’s not easy to get more paypal accounts. The $ section will not be back.
The introduction of a financial incentive really changes the whole spirit of CAM4. At the very least the true amateurs should have a way to switch off the token box. If CAM4 is looking for means to increase revenue — valid enough in itself; it’s a business after all — maybe instead of tempting everyone to, in effect, become prostitutes, the company could try another strategy. Reduce the cost of Gold Membership and promote its benefits heavily (full screen, priority chatting, private messaging etc.) and attract a much larger pool of paying members, enough to significantly boost CAM4’s current Gold Membership revenue stream. Unfortunately, given the generous cut CAM4 is taking on token transactions and the likelihood that a lot of broadcasters will hate the idea of being paid to do what they enjoy for its own sake — and thus won’t attempt to redeem tokens — it does look like a cynical cash-grab. There are a load of others ways for users to show appreciation for broadcasters, but of course that’s a grey area CAM4 can’t milk for itself.
Epicene, it’s all optional
Is there any way you could create a new tips feedback thread? as I would be very interested to see what the pay girls/here for fun girls/casual visitors/regulars/pay visitors have to say about this new feature so far.It would be interesting to read i think :-)
TennisKing, Will do a launch article soon.
So let me understand this from a previous Admin reply. The broadcaster gets all of 1 penny for each token purchased. Wow…..
Ctyboy, $.01 a token works out to a higher payout for the performer than any other webcam site. If you subtract the costs of credit card processing, hosting, advertising and other costs first, the performers make over 70% of the money. If you don’t subtract those costs it works to 50% of the gross sale. Cam4 still has to pay all those costs with it’s portion. It may sound like a little but bottomline is that Cam4 pays out the most. We have already has girls making over $60/hr on the first day and that will just increase as more people use the system.
The mentality of every female performer on cam4 right now is I’m not getting naked till i get tips. Every room ive been is is like that now. And when they get tips they vanish. This is going to be the norm when people are looking to get quick cash grab.
Koolaid, that is complete bullshit. not EVERY performer on here is asking for tips. It’s actually a small portion. You are being over dramtic about how the world will end. People that want to support the performers will and other will not tip. People that want money will ask and exhibitionists will not.
I know you need to make money but merging the pay girls with the featured site is a step back. I’m not asking for much but please add a filter like option…
I dont feel clicking through all the pay-girls…
Today cam4 died for me
Good night sweept prince cam4
2007-2010
Hi, from Italy, as many others, I’m afraid from this new “Tipping”.
I think there will be the risk for this site to become like a pay site, I mean that showing will not be for personal pleasure, but for money, I already saw many asking to do show .
The web is already FULL of video-chat were you must pay.
The very nice thing of cam4 (for me) is that,untill now, most of people here like to show for they own pleasure, personally I dont’t like that will became everithing like the old pay section.
I do not write a very good english, so I hope you will understand wath I mean, is not a problem of money, but the risk to loose the genuine pleasure of amateurs.
I’d like to know your opinion about
Raggio, Cam4 is completely free for you to use. You do not need to pay to watch cams, chat to performers or to broadcast. You do not need to tip, although you could to show appreciation for a performer if you wanted to. The people that show here because they are exhibitionists can and do still do come and show on Cam4. Performers are also not required to use the tipping system.
What rate will be applied when cashing tokens? Will it be the same as in purchasing? 250 tokens -> $4.95?
pikertxu, All tokens are cashed out for $.01/token
Will you be able to tip people with tips that you have received?
Boomerangno1, At the moment no. You would have to cash out your tokens and buy tokens to tip with. It’s a programming issue related to the payment system. Looking to do that in the future.
So, basically Cam4 will become a “Free to chat, but pay for action”, type of site.
We all know Cam4 will fill up with those chicks, and they will outweigh the free performers.
“Tip me for boobs”
“Tips for pussy”
“Tips for a hot show”
That’s going to be the theme of Cam4.
C4A, I have to disagree with you. I’m looking at the main page and out of 45 people, one has set a goal in the tipping system. The majority of the cam performers are the same as before. Amateur people getting off and having a great time.
So does that mean that hosts currently using paypal $ section will have to use Cam4 tipping feature in future or will they be free to carry on using paypal?
Biggy,
Paypal does not allow people to use it for sex purposes. If they find out, they will delete your account. So it’s not a smart idea to do so. Cam4 hopes that the tipping system will be used instead of paypal and in the future, paypal will not be allowed.
So once the $ tab is removed, what will you do with all the broadcasters that are advertising for PayPal shows?
Ally, Once the $ tab is removed, everyone will be in the main directory.
Admin, I have a question.
Why is that you guys ban some of the hosts, who always get to the number one spot?
From all of the forums i visit, there are hosts who complain on them, that as soon as they get to the number one spot, with over a thousand views, they get banned. It can’t be just a coincidence, because it happens all the time.
They suspect that your admin is banning hosts who get more views, than your employees.
It has to be true, because I’ve read posts from these hosts, who said that when they went to number one, they would get banned. They said they’ve never solicited private shows for money(Which is true), but they still get banned. Once their profile gets deleted, they make a new one, hit the number one spot again, then gets banned, and deleted…again.
Something is not right, admin. If you guys don’t like the fact that non-paid hosts get more views than your paid hosts, then you should move them to a paid hosts section.
Viewer,
You shouldn’t believe everything you read. It would make no sense for Cam4 to delete the most popular cams. If you watched the site for a few hours you would see that Cam4 doesn’t ban everyone that gets to #1 spot. The people that win Cam of the Month are in 1st place a lot. So this obviously isn’t true.
I’m sure you have read complaints from people that have been deleted. That is no surprise. There are many innocent men in prison is how the saying goes. Sure some people have probably been unfairly delete by overzealous admins. But in most cases, the people deserved to be deleted.
Some good points made by Juli. What will Cam4 do when they start receiving tons of complaints like: “I tipped the broadcaster and she reached her token goal then she just logged off without doing anything. I demand a refund!” Will you offer refunds? Will you deduct tokens from broadcasters?
I know a tip is a way of saying thank you and one shouldn’t expect anything in return, but if a broadcaster is asking for a certain amount of tokens to show, they should be expected to follow through once their goal is met.
J,
You are right. A token is a way to say thank you and one shouldn’t expect anything in return. The broadcasters are not employees of Cam4 and Cam4 cannot make them do things. Cam4 does not require performers to do anything and Cam4 doesn’t require people to tips performers. So in most cases, tokens will not be refunded. That said, Cam4 will refund tokens from fraudulent broadcasters and will do everything we can to catch and delete fraudulent broadcasters.
just make sure to seperate those “tip cams” from the free cams.
Move them to the $ section, dont add them to the featured site or even better add search filter to the main page.
(and if you’re at it, enable gzip/deflate already after slapping your admin)
Someone, There will be no more $ tab once the tipping is launched. I believe compression is already turned on.
Without change,there can be no growth………. 3 cheers for cam4 great feature…
As a amature performer (and occasional watcher of other cams) I am quite unhappy with tipping. As Ally said, it gives way for more hostile viewers if you ignore or deny the tip. Sure us broadcasters have a ban button, but sometimes that button doesn’t always work (proxies and multiple accounts).
I can only imagine chat being filled with “I tipped you so now what do I get.” comments. I love broadcasting, even when I’m not performing and that would deeter me from wanting to use the site at all. I would highly suggest having a feature to disable tipping if one does not wish to accept tips.
I also see it becoming an issue where someone says they are accepting x amount of tips to do this or that, then turning off their cam, leaving their viewers angry and unsatisfied. I’ve seen it happen before. “Nude at 2000” displayed in the status 2300 pop into the cam and then oops…there goes the performer. In the past they weren’t getting money for it, and some only lucky enough to hit Cam of the Day. Probably most not enough to get the Cam of the Month prize.
I’ve also already seen Cam4 employees requesting tips to do a show, when their headline displays they are doing a show. Answer me something if you will. Are Cam4 employees paid to do shows or paid just to be on cam? If they are paid to do shows does that negate the fact that they are requesting tips before they perform?
I do agree with most of the others that it will definately turn the tide of the established Cam4 community, and I also see the point of view from performers that they like the tipping as a means for fans to show appreciation. I do however feel that it will become an overwhelming cesspool of demands for tips for tits and tits for tips, if you catch what I’m saying…
Juli_love,
The people doing the beta have been told to set goals and use the tipping system. The idea with a beta is to test the functionality of the system.
Once the system is live, we will work on an option for you to be able to turn tipping off in your profile if you do not want to use it.
Ok, I went into one of your employees room(I won’t name drop), just to see about the tipping feature. She’s been on this site since 2008, and always gave a good show(Even though it’s been overly repetitive), but now that the tipping feature is there, she won’t even show unless she is tipped constantly.
Sadly, this is going to be the direction that Cam4 will go. When you allow this feature for everyone, they too, won’t show unless they’re tipped.
As i said before, i know you guys have to make money, but Cam4 was a unique site. There were hosts who weren’t motivated by money, or winning COTM, they were there for the fun. The fun of being watched by hundreds of people, the fun of getting off because hundreds are watching them. Those same people I’m speaking of, will now be tempted to “Be tipped” to show something, because the feature is easily available.
There is a certain copy site of cam4 that i visit frequently, but there aren’t as many people on cam, as cam4.
Personally, I don’t like “Pro cam whores”, or the girls from other countries, who sit on cam for hours on end, for a tip, which Cam4 will attract. I like cam chicks who are there for fun, and fun only.
Anyway, it’s you guy’s site, i supported the site since 2008, but hey, all good things must come to an end. Off to search for the next great free cam site.
Bro,
This is a beta test and the tipping beta models have been asked to use the tipping system, set goals, etc. to test the system. I really don’t think that “everyone” is going to stop showing when tipping is launched. When it’s live, some people will use it some will not (example Juli).
We read all the comments and not even a simple one was in favor of tipping. You said you received many positive comments but where are they?
We registered as Gold members because we like this is for amateurs who like to show and watch without involving money. We’re loosing that! It will be just another pay per view site like all others.
You should give more details how it will work? Only those tipping will see a certain cam? If i tip a girl, everyone will see what she does for me? Or only the one tipping? What means that “goal” stuff some performers put on their tipping window?
How much wort a “token”? How will you pay preformers? and so on…..
Thanks
Lizmy,
I’ve got about 100 comment via email. All performers except one that has commented, love the idea. Quite a few viewers have sent in positive comments as well.
The way it will work is that everyone will be able to receive tips (except super show performers) and everyone will be able to send tips. No one will be require to send tips. Everyone will still be able to view all cams for free. Everyone will be able to chat for free. You will be able to see all cams even when people are sending the performers tips. A tip is a means of expressing gratitude for the performer. It is not a requirement of anyone.
A performer will be able to use the tipping system to set a goal like “Show tits for 500 tokens” or display a time limit for how long they are online. Performers are not required to set goals or time limits.
Tokens can be purchased in packages starting at 250 Tokens for $4.95 up to 5000 Tokens for $84.95. Performers can cash out tokens for $.01 each.
We do not think amateurs will leave cam4. That is not what performers have been saying at all.
If you have any more questions, please let me know.
If its nto broke don’t fix it.
What you have going is rather unique right now. People who want to cam for fun and people who want to watch for fun. Simple and obviously popular.
You have more “people” then “performers” btw… there’s a difference.
Just hope this change doesn’t ruin the desire of those who go to cam4 for fun on both sides of the cam.
Aname,
I have heard that saying before. And I understand that many people do not like change. But in order to improve you have to change and we want to improve. The people that broadcast or perform on cam4 have not said that they will be leaving. I had that fear myself but I don’t think that will be the case. But we will see. That is not our goal here.
Like others have expressed;
I hope this does not change Cam4 too much. Cam4 is my fave site out of all the cam sites out there right now. I hope things don’t turn into a “pay me to see my bits”.
So fingers crossed and lets wait and see what we see!
:)
You say you think it may change how some of us perform shows. Should it, Admin? Do you want the motivation for cam shows on your site change from exhibitionism to money?
I *hope* that doesn’t become the prevailing notion. I appreciated that the culture on cam4 was one where people who enjoyed being watched and those who enjoyed watching found each other for mutual satisfaction.
In visiting the first few cams using the tipping feature I’ve already encountered the “If you want to see more, tip more.” attitude. As you say, it’s completely optional. I have requested that people watching me not insult me with offers of money. I guess we will have to see how it goes from here.
If you are hoping for more cams using the tipping feature perhaps the tipping symbol on the thumbnail should be less obtrusive. It would still be noticeable but detract less from your supershows. Just a thought.
36GG
Some people on cam4 perform because they are exhibitionists, some for attention and some for money (cam of the month) or to be paid in private. I’m happy that people want to perform.
I’ve received many positive and negative comments from viewers and broadcasters. Some say they will use it and some will not.
The tipping icon is just there for the beta. Since after the beta tipping will be available for all performers that want to use it.
Yeah, I’ve got a bad feeling about the tip thing, but not nearly as bad as about the idea of desegregating the Ams from the Pros. Abolishing the PayPal Ghetto might result in Page 1 being filled with pros, and this in turn discourages ams, and then the site becomes a depressing virtual stripclub like MyFreeCams.
But I understand that Cam4 is a business, and if becoming MyFreeCams is your goal, then go for it. Hopefully, you’ll be able to keep the active amateur base from being contaminated (yes, my bias) by those who are just in it for the cash.
Splatador,
I love the amateurs as well. They are very popular. And the cams with the most viewers are on page 1 because it’s sorted by popularity.
I can’t see anything good coming out of this for me. I am an attention whore not a money whore. I don’t need any money from this activity. My rewards come from people watching and appreciating me doing the type of show I want to do in terms of what I am willing to do and at the pace I want to. Having someone tip me will set up expectations is their minds and they will probably become hostile when I ignore their tips. Another opportunity to create hostile viewers is exactly the last thing I want.
I strongly hope you give the broadcasters the option to turn off the tipping feature is they so chose.
AllyCDTV,
You still have a ban button if people are hostile!
I think this is a very bad idea. The whole appeal of Cam4 is that its real people who want to be naked for FUN. Every other site is filled with people doing it for money.
I understand that you’d like to make some money, but you are removing the unique feature of the site.
Sirstick,
We are not removing people who are naked for fun. We encourage that.
My request, admin, would be for a less obtrusive way to mark the tipping shows. With one or two supershows on the main page and 4 or 5 tipping shows the rest of the thumbnails fade into the background. Perhaps a “token” symbol much like the cam of the day symbol?
33g, that is only there for the beta test. Those symbols will be removed when it’s over. I suspect in a few days.
This feature is going to change cam4 completly. you can’t say “cam4 stays free”, because soon girls will start to charge for it to get even in bra.
This will attract more and more pay girls, and asians. so at least create a new section “tipping” or ban them to the pay section.
Think about it because consequence will never be the same
Someone,
I appreciate your prediction of the future. I’m not sure things will change completely. There are a lot of amateur performers that love cam4 and I think they will continue to come and show because they love to show. I think they may even be encouraged by people showing their appreciation with tips.
Cam4 is free. You will still be able to watch all cams and chat for free. That does not change. You don’t have to tip. It’s an option for people that do.
Are gold members going to get free tokens every month or just once during the beta?
Kaxi_ At the moment we are giving all gold members 250 tokens free to try this out. We are thinking about future options and promotions for gold members and regular members with regards to tokens.
Admin, you and i both know, this new feature will attract more pro cam chicks, and they will outweigh the chicks who are there for fun. Even the girls who are there for fun will at some point, be tempted to NOT have fun, unless they’re tipped.
I understand you guys have to make money, but come on!
As i suggested in my other comments, this feature should only be used for your employees, and those who do the super-shows.
Desperate girls, will sit on cam for hours on end, asking for tips to do something(Familiar to MFC).
Yea, there’s going to be plenty who’s going to tip, but for guys like me, i love to see the women who’s there just for fun. Money tempts all, remember that.
Bro,
I would imagine that tipping will attract more pros and perhaps more amateurs as well. I don’t think having more cams is a bad thing.
I’m not sure I can predict what effect it will have on the amateur web performers. Maybe it will change the way some perform shows, maybe not. We will have to see. I do know that the response from the performers is overwhelming in favor of tipping. Everyone wants to use it now.
Personally I think it will increase the number of cams, of course you will not like them all, but you will have more choice and you can always choose which ones you want to watch.
Regarding the new tipping feature are you going to create a new rooms for those who wish to use it, can the new tipping feather be disabled for users who have no interest in using when you have finished the beta testing ? Will you be removing the pay-pal scammer room as you now have the tipping feature ?
I received an internal mail from admin regarding this new feature but for some strange reason iam unable to delete it :(
Zigzag9
There will be no paypal room. That will be removed. Everyone on the site will be able to send tips or receive tips. No one will be required to send tips or receive tips. It’s totally optional.
That message is a sticky message. It will be deleted for you in a while.