Cam4 Tipping Feature Launched
Cam4 has launched a new tipping feature. All performers are now able to accept tips and all viewers are able to send tips. There has been a number of questions about tipping that I would like to answer here.
What do I have to do to accept tips?
All cams can accept tokens now. You don’t have to do anything but broadcast live. Once you have performed on Cam4, you will automatically have an account setup at Cam4Bucks with the same username and password that you use on Cam4. When you go to Cam4bucks – https://www.cam4bucks.com you can view the amount of tips you earned and cash them out.
How much are token worth and how can I cash them out?
You can cash out tokens for $.01/token. For example 1,000 tokens = $10 USD. You can cash out your tokens and request a payment at Cam4Bucks.
Can I cash out my tokens to Paypal? Can I buy tokens with PayPal?
No. PayPal cannot be used on adult websites. You can purchase tokens with credit cards. You can receive payments for the tokens that you have earned by Check, Wire, and Western Union. See Cam4Bucks for more information.
Where can I buy tokens and how much does it cost?
Tokens can be purchased in the token widget under the cams or in the Profile [Manage] Tokens tab for
- 250 Tokens for $4.95
- 500 Tokens for $9.95
- 1,000 Tokens for $19.95
- 1,500 Tokens for $27.95
- 2,000 Tokens for $36.95
- 2,500 Tokens for $44.95
- 5,000 Tokens for $84.95
How long are tokens valid for? When do they expire?
Tokens are valid forever. They do not expire.
Can I use the tokens I earn to tip other performers?
Unfortunately at the moment you cannot. Tokens you earn are in Cam4Bucks which is a separate system. We will be making changes allowing you to convert your tips to tokens that you can use to tip other performers.
How can I turn off the tipping on my cam?
At the moment you cannot. But the programmer are also working on making this an option that you will be able to turn off in your Profile [Manage] area. Tipping is optional though and you do not have to ask for tips.
I earned tips and today they are gone? Where are they?
Tips that you earn during your broadcasts are shown in the Current Performance report at the bottom right of your broadcast window. Once your broadcast ends, the Current Performance report is zeroed out and these tips are shown in the Performance Summary report. The Performance Summary report will show all the tokens that you have ever earned. Also, after the session is closed your $ earnings are updated on Cam4Bucks.
What if people promise something and do not do it once they receive tips?
If this happens and you lose tokens or you see video or any other fraudulent activity, please report it immediately to Cam4 support. Fraudulent performers will be banned and tokens returned to the people tipping them.
admin,
Also, it would be awesome if there was an option for gold members to select all tippers into private mode instead of having to click on each tipper’s username individually in a list of 50+ people. This has been very frustrating for me lately because the average amount of members in my room is 50-100 people, and having to select each tipper from the list takes up way too much time, leaves the tippers waiting, and just frustrates me!
Thanks.
AshtonTalon
I’ll pass on the suggestion to the programmers.
New idea!
Not sure if this has been thought of yet, but what about a special sound that plays when the goal is reach in the tip bar? It would make it easier for the performers to know the goal has been reached.
Ashton
I’ll pass that on to the programmers
I’m not asking for a CAM4 support chat.
I am referring to this:
<blockquote]Louisa,
We have many people doing support but a live support for models sounds like it would be a good idea. We will look into it.
As an aside to your response: I guess there is absolutely no one asking the support staff to get naked via e-mail.
A CAM4 Chat Support would be CAM4 staff giving aid or assistance to it’s members. Opposed to a performers chat.
Tom,
We tried live chat support and all we had was idiots asking to support staff to get naked. So we shut it down and returned to email support only.
I am questioning if and why he wants to have a SUPPORT chat with what models (he didn’t say performers)…..
You actually want to chat live one-on-one with models?
Tom,
I agree. We want to provide more tools and better support for performers. We are revamping Cam4bucks and looking into live support.
Hi, I am new to this site and have made some money already. How clear does the Identification documentation have to be? could it be scanned, faxed, photocopied, or photographed? Or does it need to be a color fax?
thanks!
Phyllis
send in the best quality copy you can make.
hi, i have a question regarding payments. if i choose the bank wire method, what will the payment show up as on my bank account statement?
Elainax
I believe it will show up as Surecom Corp. NV or Web Krew Inc.
Yes, I hear you but it still doen’t erase the fact that the tipper who got his tips back confessed in OPEN chat that the reason he accused the cammer of fraud was because he, the tipper by misstake gave 3300 instead of 300, so there was NO fraud to be found therefore no tips to be refunded. How you managed to find fraud when there wasn’t one to be found, is beyond me. The only fraud was made by the tipper. I guess lying is a good way to get ones money back. So I’m sorry to say that your answer doesn’t make any sense at all. Thanks anyway.
Whybother,
If you friend has a problem then they should contact customer support.
Update:
The tipper who got his tips back just admitted in open chat that he accidently gave 3300 instead of 300 and you took the tips back because he said the broadcaster screwded him and went offline. That tells me that you didn’t actually check the camrecording and once again- that’s bull! This makes me wonder how much you actually really do care about your broadcasters… not enough apparently.
Hey
I’ve been told there is a tipping delay- a tipper can ask for their money back withing 3 days or something. Now this is my question: When a tipper asks for his tips back, you just give them back without checking if there is a fair reason? I ask this because a friend of mine here on cam4 did a FULL show, exactly what he promised and a tipper that asked for his money back actually got them back! I mean, seriously?! A guy gets naked infront of 1000 ppl, does his show and then you take his money back. If you ask me that’s a lot of bullshit. It seems to me as you didn’t watch the camrecording of his cam before you took it back. That’s really shameful cause he feels screwed! And why is that? Cause he can’t take his freaking show back!
And there is STILL a bug in opening the pvt chats and friendsrequests and have been for several months now. As in one can’t click on the blinking envelope more than once b4 one has to reload. Feel free to fix it.
Whybother,
Tips are not refunded without finding out what is going on first. We can check and do check what the performer promised for the tips and what they actually did. Tippers will not usually get refunded unless there is some sort of fraud involved. We care about the performers and about the people making the tips. I don’t know the specifics of what happened to your “friend” but he should contact customer support if he has an issue.
The programmers are working on the messaging and friends/favorites bugs.
I am a student living in the UK. I want to become a cam4 performer, earn some ££ so I don’t have to get a part time job in my first year of uni. I’m very wary about emailing you signed documents/scans of my passport etc. Also, is there a cam4 admin email that performers/potentials email directly for support?
Your FAQ’s on both cam4 and cam4bucks aren’t very helpful, and it would be great to speak to someone one on one.
Or if any other performers read this and can offer advice for a new starter it would be much appreciated!
Thanks
Candyber,
You can email kim@cam4.biz for support and with your ID. She is the only person that needs to see it. She approves your account and then it’s stored offline and deleted online so it can’t even be hacked.
I just want to say that I am a girl that asks for tokens. And yeah Cam4 is my only paycheck. I know that many people will tell me to get a real job but it’s not like I haven’t tried. I’m sure most of you won’t believe me. I just want to say that I am completely in Cam4’s debt. They have helped put food in my house and helped with my rent. I truly do enjoy being on cam. I was there before tipping came out, almost everyday haha. It has helped me be more comfortable with my over-active horniness :P I am truly hurt when I am called a token whore. I try to go lower in my goals and just do more things instead of say asking for 3000 tokens to get nude. I hope that people still enjoy talking to me and seeing me get off. Thank you again Cam4, for everything :)
Alexa
why are you so slow to responds email from a model here?you should have a live support for those who needs an answer right away..i did sent many message today but no one answer me..:(
Louisa,
We have many people doing support but a live support for models sounds like it would be a good idea. We will look into it.
I couldn’t agree more with Ashton, Cam4 is great regarding payments and support.
Recommended as well.
I just got my tip out check in the mail. I did not think I was going to receive a check at all, but I did. Cam4 customer support was very prompt in processing my documents and sending my check right away. I would recommend this site to any aspiring performer, this makes for a good second job, if not for primary income!
I see new features implemented into the tipping panel! I am still greatly anticipating the private show feature/function if and when it does get implemented.
A service status page notifies users of any disruptions to service, indicate planned maintenance or current system issues.
Tom,
Yes a service status page sounds like a good idea. We will look into that.
How about the suggestion of a service status page? Quite often an issue is known about when reported, so it would be handy to be able to refer to….
Mackaj,
What is a service status page?
Seriously this site has become an absolute joke today with the amount of connection errors and then the resulting tip count re-sets. I counted no more than 4 connection drops on one cam alone in less than an hour. Any response from admin as to why this happens?
Macka,
Connection errors can be a problem with your internet provider, your computer, power, the upstream provider to your internet provider, Cam4’s internet provider, the Cam4 server you are connected to, The upstream provider to Cam4’s internet provider, the performers internet provider, the performers computer, the performers power, the upstream provider to the performer’s internet provider, your DNS server, the performers DNS server, Cam4’s DNS server, the performers camera, and possibly more things. There are a lot of parts and pieces between you and the performer that you are watching. A short outage in any could bring cause the connection error.
If all cams on Cam4 are down, then it’s probably Cam4s internet provider. If it’s only one cam, then it’s probably that performers internet provider. If it’s happens a lot to you, then it could be your video provider. If it’s some cams and not others, it could be a particular problem with one video server.
Since you are talking about 4 drops on one cam specifically, I would guess that that performer was having problems with their Internet provider or internal computer network.
there is one cammer who is on nearly every day, usually several times a day. He scams people constantly and I know he’s been reported (I’ve done it myself) but he still keeps coming back to scam more people. This has been going on for at least a week or two. Why is nothing being done?
The cammer is vodkacaramel.
Julie_SD,
When reporting fraud we require your user name, the amount of tips you sent, to who, what was promised to you and not delivered so we can investigate your report and credit your tokens.
From what I see you never bought any tokens or tipped anyone on cam4 ever. If you have never tipped anything then it’s impossible for anyone to have scammed you out of them. If you don’t tip you should not have any expectations of what people should do for you. Basically we do not respond to reports of scams by people that do not tip.
However if you do tip and you where promised something that was not delivered, then we will investigate, refund the tokens to you and warn or ban the performer involved. We look at what the person promised in writing on the status as well as screen caps, so it’s a good idea not to tip expecting something that is not written down.
lg,
Agreed %100! you nailed it. by the way, the beggers are the ones who say “show this, show that” & the harassers are just plain rude to performers because they want a free show, but all performers should expect that to happen. statistics: %25 harassers , %50 beggers, %25 tippers. That is why a private show system should be added to the token system; if everyone’s shows are public then all viewers will keep piggybacking on other tippers (waiting for tippers to tip), and the performer would have just given 1000+ people a free show!
So ok, a performer starts a broadcast.
Somebody tip 500 tokens, just because the performer is a favorite.
Performer setup a GOAL at 5000 tokens for a show. It fill up to 2000. Performer is getting disconnected, it does happens while the performer has a goal.
If the performer has self respect and really appreciate the tippers, the new goal should be 3000 for the show.
So Admin, if the programmers can do it to show the tips that had been made when the goal was setup it will be great, if it will count all the tokens that performer made from the start of the broadcast it is not a good idea.
As Ashton says, people should know that the tipping system will bring better shows to cam4, performers make money they would invest in better webcams, toys etc.
The site is still FREE, if you don’t like a performer that does a show for tokens, don’t stay in their room.
I see some harassing performers, but they are only a few comparing to people who actually buy tokens, the rest are the majority ” show this, show that”.
I think you have misunderstood. There are cases where cam4 drops the broadcast or a perfomers connection acts up and they must re-set and the token count re-sets to zero. You can’t say that doesn’t happen, and how is that fair on those who tipped previously? An option (by the broadcaster) to resume the count (from within a timeframe limit) would be a good option. If someone can’t understand that, then I give up.
Macka, yes people lose their internet connections. When they relogin, they need to setup their goals and so forth and it wouldn’t include the tips there had already been made. I think I understand what you are saying. If the goal wasn’t complete, put it back up showing the tips that had already been made.
I checked with the programmers and this is how it currently works. It has to do with timing. If the cam disconnects and comes right back, the session is untouched (goals, messages, deadlines). However if the cam takes more than 5 minutes to come back, then the session is closed and a new one would begin. They would have to setup the goals, messages and deadlines all over again.
I understand that, and as I refuse to tip I won’t be contacting support but will be encouraging others to do so.
How about the suggestion of resuming tip counts after a broadcast re-set?
macka, if a broadcast is reset, it doesn’t mean that they didn’t perform what they intended. There is no way to determine that automatically what was promised and performed so this wouldn’t work.
jt96,
I am always performing on this site on cam because I put the most time and effort into it. I do not beg for tokens, I earn them. A customer will buy a private show with me because he/she wants to see a good show. I am already a highly rated member by my good following. (check out the feedback on my chat wall) I have invested alot of money into performing on this site. (new hd webcam, lighting etc.) I only get naked in private mode, so that must be what you are so mad about. I have not won cam of the month because I am always in private mode. If that makes you so mad then feel free to watch a free cam. I do not spend 4-5 hours a day in public cam mode masturbating so you can record a video of me (that has already happened to me)
Also, I am only performing on this site because of the %50 payout. Streamate only offers %20-%35. If you check out the other pay cam sites you will see that all of the guys and girls on there are exactly like me, cam whores, only doing it for money.
I do not know why you are even on this site watching cams if you do not expect to see a few cam whores, because most of us have money in mind.
Ashton
Admin
I have a question;
Has the tips system now replaced what used to be PayPal shows?
I visit C4 often and these past few weeks I have seen an increase in female broadcasters asking for tips for private shows.
Was not the tipping system designed and implemented for viewers to show their appreciation to broadcasters that put on-site based shows?
I’ve also notice “some” broadcasters setting tip goles and once reached log off line and then return later with their tips gole reset and doing it all over again.
:)
Meme, yes we do not allow paypal any longer. The tipping system was created to allow viewers to give performers money and a way for performers to cash it out. The system encourages more performers to be online, online longer and give better performances. If the performer reaches a goal, they can reset it or increase it.
I have expectations that people don’t get ripped off. For a performer to re-set their tip count and come back on is a problem just asking to be exploited. Is the suggestion to resume going to be taken seriously?
macka, we remove people that commit fraud and refund the money. If you have had that problem, contact support and they will take care of it.
This is a good point.
It is not fair for people that tip, when a broadcaster setup a Goal, get the tokens then log off only to comeback, reset the Goal and not doing what she/he/them got tipped for. This is bad business.
A good performer will always do what they get tipped for, keep a count of the tokens, yes it does happen to get booted by the site. A tip for admin, when the performer gets booted, all the viewers get booted as well, it will be great if the viewers will be able to stay in the room and wait for the performer to reconnect.
This system is so open to abuse and I have seen it on more than one occasion. Broadcasters promise something for a certain amount of tokens and then either shut their cam off or get kicked off, then return later to only push for the tokens again and the same promise.
I complained through feedback only to be told as I didn’t give any tokens nothing could be done about the accused fraud.
I think at a minimum there should be a resume show/token count option if shut off in say the last 30 mins to pick up where the broadcaster left off.
Macka,
If you didn’t tip anyone, then you shouldn’t have any expectations and there there was no fraud. Nothing for us to investigate. For people that do tip performers, we investigate their complaints and if there is fraud, we refund the tokens and warn or remove the offenders.
@lg,
I do not consider the tokens/tips a gift. I considering it a payment for my hard work! Shoving and plunging a dildo in and out of your *** is not easy. It is hard work.
@admin,
WOW! People do not understand but tipping actually added a spice to Cam4 and gave me a job. Since I started performing for $ on here, almost 10 people became gold members just to have all of the features in my room because they like watching my cam so much. The tipping idea was just plain genius and whatever programmer thought of this I applaud you. Although, I do think there should be a free section.
@everyone,
Some people actually like to tip cams and get private shows because they want to see something special or be alone with the performer in a private show. Also, the more time a performer puts into it there is alot of money to be made. There are still many free cams to watch, and alot of cammers that have fun for free. This is not just about the site making money, the performers make money too and viewers become drawn to watch more because the performer is always back for more! The system is working fine.
@admin
You are a GOD!
Cheers to that!
I am looking for the Application for CAM4 to run on my Android G1 phone.
Larry, Cam4 works on all Andriod phones. You don’t need to use an app.
Well, thats a pitty your token system.
It leads to so many kinds of BS and abuses that what should be fun ends up not beeing fun at all.
i Know its your businees but as long as that token thing exist ill never buy you a membership.
Cheers & good luck.
Ok, i am new to cam4, i have to say i like it very much.
It is fun, you can make good friends and make a few bucks too. The tipping system is good, some of the broadcasters like to feel appreciated for a good show. For a great show you need a good computer, video camera, internet connection etc. Everybody enjoys a good show, i don’t see a problem if a user wants to reward the broadcaster for it.
When you people say tons of tokens, keep in mind that a token is worth $0.01 for the broadcaster, so asking let’s say 1000 tokens/$10 for show is not that much.
I don’t agree that tipping ruins cam4, it’s still FREE and the users and guests get to see and have more options than most of the cam sites out there.
If you don’t like that a broadcaster asks for tips, you are free to go to other rooms, there are thousands on cam4.
Also, tips should be considered gifts, you are not obliged to tip. They should only be refunded when a video is being played instead of live performance.
To answer some…
The compliance form 2257 and ID copies is required by all sites, to be assured that the broadcaster is not under age. This you will find it where there is content intented for adults only.
Is the broadcaster’s responsability to sort their own taxes.
P.S. Would like that the ADMIN that moderates cam4 to speak english, i was asked if i was a video in spanish lol. My luck that i know the language a little bit.
how come other web cam sites dont require that complience form that yo uguys do.. i see a statement on osme others but not an actual requirement to send one signed with oru nameson it to them. why is that? also is there a certain amount of money that we have to make before we are forced to have to report our earnings on our taxes? or do we have to report everything even if its like only 50 bucks?
Dani,
I don’t know why other companies do not require this documentation. Cam4 requires it to legally protect the performer.
Cam4 does not force you to report your earnings on your taxes. Cam4 (Surecom Corporation, NV) is a company based in Curacao, the Netherlands Antilles. Performers are not employees of Cam4. As a foreign corporation, Cam4 is not required to and does not file income reports for performers (independent contractor). This DOES NOT MEAN that you are not subject to the Tax Rules of the country where you are resident and we NEVER encourage or assist anyone in avoiding payment of their appropriate taxes. You should seek advice from a trusted accountant if you do not understand the tax reporting requirements in your country.
What happens if we dont report our earnings in our income tax? will the irs know and come looking for us? is there a certain amount you have to make in order to be required to report our earnings? thans alot
danielle
dani,
I am not an American and have no idea what the IRS will do. I suggest you get advice from an accountant.
Hi Admin,
Something that i don’t understand.
I want to start broadcasting on cam4, full nudity, good shows for tips.
Do i have to submit the 2257 and ID copy before i begin to broadcast?
Or i can start, make some money and only when i request a payment i submit the paperwork?
I e-mailed support, was told to visit cam4bucks, which i did but didn’t find the information required.
Would appreciate a reply.
Thanks
LG,
You are require to verify your age before broadcasting. You are not required to submit 2257 or ID to broadcast. You are require to submit your ID and 2257 to collect tokens that you wish to cash out.
I’m just being blatenly honest when I say this, but the tipping feature, in my opinion, makes Cam4 look bad. Since this system has been implemented, I think it gives some of the broadcasters this sense of entitlement, in terms of money, and that people need to pay them. Some broadcasters will come on and try to pass off some “sob” story about needing to pay for school, books, etc. While that may or may not be true, their financial troubles are NOT my problem, nor anyone else’s on this site. If the site is supposed to really be free, what’s the use of having the tipping system in the first place? People should want to broadcast or watch on Cam4 out of fun and enjoyment of their sexuality, not to force their financial burdens on any of the members.
I’m not sure about the women, but as far as some of the guys go, I’ve seen a few of them turn into absolutely crazed cam-whores. Perfect example: “AshtonTalon”. I’ve seen instances where he has come on and off Cam4, several times a day, practically begging for tons of tokens, just to go private with other people. He has done this A LOT, and if that’s not being a cam-whore, I don’t know what is. I’ve seen his responses on another entry, but he is not as innocent as he claims himself to be. That is why I stay out of his room, simply due to the fact that he is one of the people who make this site look bad, through the use of the tipping system.
I believe the tipping system should only be available to use by proven, highly rated members, that have won Cam of the Month at least once. At least those that have won, have proven they are worth tipping, if they need some sort of real financial help. If you did that, it might prove to be a pretty decent idea, because in order for certain members to be able to earn the use the tipping feature, they would have to up their game, and go for Cam of the Month. Not a bad idea in my opinion.
I would like to thank Cam4 team, now my payment has been sorted out. The money is in the bank, THANKS a lot guys!
Admin, Thanks again for answering the questions.
However, from your experience…
1.) is it ill-advised to fill out a 2257 form if you have a regular career? This is our one main concern. Is a filled out 2257 form admitting that you do “porn” basically?
2.) what are other “reasons” a person could have filled out a 2257 form, if anyone was to ask? “shirtless modeling”, etc?
3.) when I go see my tax guy, do I just say for example “I made 500 bucks a month from a “podcast” i do, or “online radio show”, or something similar? Do you HAVE to say, me and my wife bang on camera and get money for that?
Also, anyone else who wants to chime in on this feel free.
Thanks again admin,
-Ryan (a much appreciated rookie)
Ryan,
The 2257 form will be checked by one person here and our database will be updated to show that you have submitted proper documentation. It will be printed and filed by user name, then all electronic copies deleted. Unless the police ask to see it with a warrant, it will only ever be seen by 2 people, one time each. It is not submitted to any government agencies. The form is required to have on file in case the police want to see it, there are no requirements to submit it to anyone. You are required to have one to prove that you are of age if you are producing adult content in the USA or for viewing by people in the USA.
I don’t think you need to explain the naughty details to your tax accountant. How about saying you do Internet Consulting. That sounds vague enough.
Is there a possibility for a cammer to get rid of the tipping box? I only broadcast at times and then I don´t do anything worth tipping for, so I don´t want ppls money … especially if the customers pay double of what the tokens are worth. Was actually thinking about getting some tokens but when I saw what the actual token was worth, I decided against it. I´m not accustomed to pay sites but I actually thought the camers got more than 50 percent … silly me lol. Altough I like cam4 I wouldn´t want you to get the other 50 percent of another persons work … sorry.
_rosa_
You can turn off tipping now. That feature has been added today. Go to Profile [Manage] options and un-check the box that says Accept Tips
If only Kim has explained THIS in the email, I wouldn’t have to write it here. It took you only what, a few hours to reply. I’ve been waiting for Kim’s reply for days.
Thanks for the info anyway, appreciate it. I don’t really want to get nasty, but sometimes you have to kick some butts to get things explained.
Peace,
Roguejass
I’ve been on Cam4.com since April this year, starting out with the $ section. Although I do enjoy stripping on cam, but money has always been my primary. I was doing fine until you guys introduce the tipping system. I lost quite a percentage of the money I’m making. Then, I told myself to get over it and step up my game. So I did a few sessions of my normally-would-be-private-show on public for tokens, and start being creative by offering free videos and photos for top tippers and I can see the wheels turning, my viewers number went up and I started to make bucks (slowly but progressively) again. But here are my new headaches:
I sent my 2557 Compliance Form & ID documents for the first time on Sept. 28th to dentification@cam4.com. All performers has to complete this step before they can request for money, so I did, I never received any reply though.
I completed all details regarding payment in my cam4bucks account and chose “Wire Transfer” as method of payment. As soon as I get the minimum amount of money that can be requested ($100 USD), I request for payment ($102) the first time on Oct. 7th. A few hours later, the ‘status’ on my cam4bucks account stated “You got paid 1 time for the total amount of $ 77.00” (after deducting $25 for Wire Transfer fee). Bummer, but I thought, “Cool, at least no more Paypal BS.” But of course, I had ‘overestimate’ cam4.
I received this email on Oct. 8th
“We have received your request to be paid for tips you received while broadcasting. Unfortunately, we cannot do that until you email us 2 forms of identification and the 2257 compliance form filled out and signed. At least one form of ID must be a government issued ID that has your photo as well as your date of birth (passport, drivers license or valid government photo ID). Once this has been received then payment can be released.
You will find the 2257 compliance form here:
https://cam4bucks.com/aff/stats.php?skin=cam4tipping
Kim
Customer Support Manager
Kim@cam4.biz ”
I was like WTF, I did that about a week before, didn’t they have somebody checking into those documents sent to their system i.e check their inbox for identification@cam4.com?? I’m sure the inbox is being hammered but common, this system shouldn’t be broken. Irritated, I replied anyway and re-attached the documents needed.
4) On Oct. 13th, Kim sent me another email
“You are set to go. All you need to do is go to https://www.cam4bucks.com and log in using your Cam4.com user name/password and you can request your payments there.
Kim
Customer Support Manager
kim@cam4.biz ”
So, I did as instructed. Turned out I didn’t have enough money to request after my first pay-out ($77), and although this being already one week since my so-called first pay-out, I thought “Hmm..maybe the money is being transferred” so I asked for Kim to check into it. I attached the screenshot of my cam4bucks.com account statement and asked her how long does the wire transfer normally takes place. Kim replied back a few hours later said she’ll check into it.
5) I never heard again from her so I sent another email on Oct 15th asking if she have any news. She replied,
“Have you checked with your bank and if so, can you tell me what they said please?
Thanks,
Kim ”
So I called my bank, (had to make an oversea calls for this) and No, they said they have no information about any telegraphic transfer to my account. So I told Kim exactly that on my next email. But I guess Kim must be away somewhere on the weekends as I have received no more replies from her.
So here’s what I’m so bummed about :
1) I paid $20 a month so I can get a Gold Membership that allows me to have certain features that I need for my show.
2) I spend time, money and effort to get all the documents sent out only to find out they ‘never receive’ it. That shows something is not right with the system.
3) I definitely work my ass off (literally) to get the tipping going while I’m doing my public shows. Cam4 gets half the money my tippers spent on my show minus whatever cost on their side, yet my other half is going nowhere near my bank account.
4) On top of that, I’m paying $25 for wire transfer fee that never took place on the money that I never had.
Clap effin Clap, GREAT SYSTEM YOU GUYS!!
Frustrated,
Roguejass
Roguejass,
Cam4 has had some problems setting up the collection of 2257/ID and issuing payments these first couple of weeks. These are new systems and they have to work out initial kinks. These problems will be cleared up and you will receive the money your earned. I am not sure about your problems with emailing your identification or in sending money to your bank but I think it’s better for you to work these issues out with Kim, then to discuss them in public on the blog.
Last post I made came off a little too negative.
Overall the tipping feature has caused some “problems” but has not killed the unique nature of the site.
Admin,
Thanks so much for answering my question. You really have a great team over there at cam4.
The follow up to your answer is the 2257 forms. How available are these to the public, govt, or outside agencies? Is it bad to be on record as having filled out a 2257 form if you have a career? What is the potential impact, and how private are these as well?
Thanks again for your time.
Ryan,
The 2257 forms are not shown to anyone. They are only there in case the US government requests to see them. If they do want to see them, they should be requesting to see them from you as you are the primary content producer. Cam4 is only keeping the documents to show that you actually have them.
There is a notable need to wade through alot of token focused girls now…especially in the afternoon. It has to some extent made the site seem like any other token/money site. Can call them the “business” crowd. Which is bad.
That said there are still quite a few girls(only section I bother with) who will either not take tokens or will accept them but don’t care about them. Ca call them the the “fun” crowd. Which is good.
I have noticed those in the second group tend to be those who where here before the tipping thing went live. Which may be a sign that the tipping thing is hurting newcomers not interested in money but just fun.
You want the “fun” crowd more then the “business” crowd. Too many cam sites running on pay systems for you to even try to compete. I don’t know what should or can be done but I think you need to get the focus off the tokens…somehow.
In reply to what Admin said in response to Manny… I’m EXTREMELY confused.
Admin, could you do an example with numbers that make sense to a MODEL?
What I understood from the description on your website is: a token = 1 penny… from the amount of tokens a girl gets, 30% goes to fees, and of the 70% that is left, 29% goes to cam4 as profit. If this is wrong, you should change the way it is worded on your site. I feel like it’s a little misleading to say “We pay 70% of the net!!!” because the girl is just going to see 70%. If the truth is that you pay 50% of the gross, just say that. I know, it doesn’t sound as good.
Before reading this, I didn’t know that the guy pays almost twice that for the token. Because, let’s be honest, $.017 (or, as you said, $.01699) = $.02 in the real world. Yes, it’s $4.95, not $5 for 250 tokens… but it’s ALMOST twice, so as far as what makes sense in the real world, use whole numbers (at least to the smallest measurement in the American monetary system — a penny).
So… when I look at that.. what I see is.. cam4 takes 50% right off the bat when the client buys the tokens.. and then.. from what the girl receives, takes 30% for expenses, and 29% for profit. Again…if that is NOT how it is… you should work on the wording on your site.
As far as the pay being better than other sites, I’m not so sure about that. For one thing, on myfreecams the tokens are worth more so it’s a lot easier to get to a higher number, and therefore get paid. It’s great to pay 70% of the net…but when it’s 70% of 10 dollars instead of 50% of 100 dollars… I’ll take the 50%. Moreover I know of a site that pays 60% of the gross, and absorbs the fees. It would probably be a good idea to do your research before claiming you’re the highest paying site on the net.
Also, try to consider the fact that with $.01/token… you get guys throwing 10 tokens at a girl and expecting her to do something. To me, 10 tokens means nothing. I can find that in my sofa or the bottom of my purse, if I really tried. If your minimum payout is $50, and it costs $25 to get that in a timely manner (and I’m not even going to touch the fact that Western Union is NOT that expensive), the girl needs to make $75 for her profit alone in order to make money. That means she has to make a total of about $150 (because 70% of 150 = 105, and 71% of 105 = $75 [$74.55 but only because I’m using whole numbers, humor me]). $150 is 15,000 tokens. Now, with a guy paying 10… 100.. maybe 200 tokens, it would take a REALLY long time to reach that 15,000 tokens needed to get ONE payout.
And how are you determining if a model is acting “fraudulently”? Does this mean that a guy can give me tokens, and because I don’t do exactly what he wants, you’ll take them away? So, I showed, but got my money taken away? Is it a he said she said type of deal? Do you take the member’s word, because they’re the one complaining? I worked the pay section on your site for a long time and I can assure you that these guys will try very hard to get something for nothing, and so if you’re saying you’ll refund tokens, expect to hear abotu a lot of “fraud.”
I’m really just very confused. If I’m mistaken, I’d be really pleased if you straightened it out for me… but can you do it in a way that speaks to models? based on what a model can actually get, and not talking in fractions of pennies…
Nessa,
Simply put, Cam4 pays $.01 per token to the performer. You make 10,000 tokens and Cam4 pays you $100 for those tokens. Nothing is subtracted from that amount other than cost to transfer the money. If you choose to get paid by check, Cam4 writes a check for $100 and sends that to you.
The value of the token doesn’t determine how much money you earn. How many tokens you earn determines how much money you make and that is determined by what kind of show you do. It doesn’t matter what webcam site you work on, people that do great shows make more money then people that do shitty shows regardless of the value of the token. It is illogical to think that having higher priced tokens makes it easier to earn more money. Is it easier to earn euros because they are worth more then US dollars? Is it more difficult to earn Japanese yen because they are worth less than the US $?
Fraud is playing a video or promising something and not delivering. Cam4 can tell from your tip widget what you promised and from screen captures what you delivered. So it’s easy to figure out if you are a fraudulent performer.
Right, that is the point… they aren’t professionals. They are amateur allowed to make tips.
In the event that a performer is judged to have violated the terms of the site regarding tips, receives a ban, and forfeits tips, are those tokens returned to the contributors, or is each person responsible for requesting a refund?
Mach5hoosier,
If a performer is banned for fraud regarding tips, then yes they will have all their tokens removed and returned to the people who tipped them. Each person will not have to request a refund.
To the admin,
Me and the wife are normal people with real jobs and love the cam4 idea for tips. Used to do Skype shows, but it was a hassle juggling who pays and who doesnt.
There is one main concern of mine, and that is faxing our real identification to you.
So my question is, how anonymous is the registering to accept tips. We use masks for our shows and need to stay 100% anonymous. The fact that I am faxing you our ID cards, and that kind of information is more than worrisome to us…
Please answer this question ASAP, as we are very interested in signing up.
Thanks Admin,
-Ryan
Ryan,
Your ID is completely anonymous. Our staff will check it and make a notation in the database on your profile that it is there. Then your ID will be printed and stored offline so it is not accessible. If police request access to your specific ID from our custodian of records, then we would have to show them. That would be the only reason anyone would ever have access.
Do you actually take any notice when someone reports a cam?
https://www.cam4.com/nextdoor0077
How can you possibly let a paypal scammer, playing a shitty video record from MFC be live for more than 20 minutes?
Ghandi,
That person’s account was deleted and any tokens tipped returned to the people that tipped them.
“What if people promise something and do not do it once they receive tips?”
“If this happens and you lose tokens or you see video or any other fraudulent activity, please report it immediately to Cam4 support. Fraudulent performers will be banned and tokens returned to the people tipping them. ”
Well, I hope you somehow are able to verify that the person is making promises they can’t keep, instead of banning anyone who’s been reported. I was once banned from cam4 because someone reported me for being underage (which im not) because someone was butthurt that i banned them from my chat.
and_what
If you look underage you account will be blocked until you send in ID, regardless of people reporting you. Send in ID and your account will be reactivated and not deleted if others report you for being underage.
I have read most of the stuff related to this “token” idea. And although risking being modded out (which will most likely happen), this is the naked truth:
Let’s start by cam4 taking about 50% of the people’s money into their pocket in what is nothing short of a ripoff. Why? look at this (directly from this website: https://www.cam4.com/blog/?p=1066#formatting)
“How much are token worth and how can I cash them out?”
“You can cash out tokens for $.01/token. For example 1,000 tokens = $10 USD. You can cash out your tokens and request a payment at Cam4Bucks. ”
So anyone would assume that a client who buys 1,000 tokens for tipping would be paying $10 right? Wrong.
Again, from their site:
Where can I buy tokens and how much does it cost?
Tokens can be purchased in the token widget under the cams or in the Profile [Manage] Tokens tab for
* 250 Tokens for $4.95
* 500 Tokens for $9.95
* 1,000 Tokens for $19.95
* 1,500 Tokens for $27.95
* 2,000 Tokens for $36.95
* 2,500 Tokens for $44.95
* 5,000 Tokens for $84.95
So the 1,000 tokens really cost $20. But the performer only receives $10 right? the other $10 goes to cam4 pockets straight up.
Now, if that was it, then it would be no different from the “usually” better paid sites. But check this out. (forget the $500 figure they talk about above, just pay attention to the actual numbers)
From:https://www.cam4bucks.com/aff/stats.php?page=faqs
“This depends on how much effort and creativity you put into your performances. But top performers can make over $500 per hour. Cam4 is committed to ALWAYS paying the most money to its Performers.
First we payout our shared expenses, about 30% of gross sales, then we give you the Performer 71.4% of the net profit. ”
Ok, so from the 1,000 tokens (or $10 as it would means for the performer) cam4 takes out 30%, thats 300 tokens or $3. So the “Net” is $7. From this “net profit” the performer gets only 71.4%, which is $4.99.
So the 1,000 tokens, or $10, end up being $4.99. But remember that the client had to spend $19.95 to buy 1,000 tokens.
The REAL percentage, dollar per dollar, that a performer gets when receiving tips at cam4 is 24.99%, or twenty five cents per each dollar spent by a client.
Interesting how they claim: “71.4% of the net is given to you! Cam4 the highest paying webcam site on the Internet!”
So much for the “71.4%”. But that’s not all, read on.
The fees to get paid are also absurd. Although getting paid by check is “free” the minimum payout is $50.00 and takes 2 weeks to deliver.
If the performer wants a Western Union transfer, embrace yourself: (the % of the cost is assuming the high amount is being transferred)
Cost:
Transfer Amount Transfer Fee Cost as % of the payout
$0- $100 $20 20%
$101- $500 $75 15%
$501-$1000 $100 10%
$1001-$5000 $275 5.5%
$5001-$9500 $400 4.2%
Minimum payout: US$50
Time to receive payment: 1-2 working days
A wire transfer is $25
This does not sound like too much of a great deal for a performer. The “token” concept is simply a way to disguise what would otherwise be a nasty transaction.
A client buys 5,000 tokens for $84.95, gives them to a performer, $34.95 goes to cam4 pocket on this first blow. Then performer cashes out, the 71.4% after the 30% “expenses” (I guess the 34.95 is pure profit for cam4) $50 – 30% = $35, $35 @ 71.4% = 24.99. Let’s assume the model manages to add up to $400 (what could be considered average pay under the old “pay section” before the tip took over), so for $400 the performer pays a fee of $75 to get the money fast. That’s 18.75% of the $400. So the REAL PAY under the tip system for those 5,000 tokens ends up being: 50 – 70% – 71.4% – 18.75% = $20.30
The client paid 84.95, so the real % of the client money on the model’s hand is 23.9%
Run the numbers and you will see. Under the old payment system, performers would get usually between 60% and 90% (depending on how they were getting paid, and how the transaction was conducted).
Also, clients looking to pay for shows visited the pay section. Keeping freeloaders (the vast majority of cam4 visitors) and pay clients separate made sense.
I guess cam4 doesn’t want anyone on the site making money where cam4 doesn’t get a bite. Too bad, the current tip system is, well.. you can imagine based on the numbers above.
Add to that the fact that cam4 terms of use are absolutely absurd:
Terms of Service,
Section 12: Cam4 does not guarantee the availability of a refund, whether in website account credits, Tokens, or money, for any reason. Cam4 may provide refunds at its own sole discretion; however, it is under no obligation to do so.
Section 10: Performers shall not work on multiple sites at the same time.
Performers may exchange information with members of Cam4, including contact information, but performers MAY NOT use members’ information to provide webcam shows or receive payments outside of the website. If a performer sells something to a member, e.g., underwear, or performs any other miscellaneous transaction, the sale must be arranged to be exchanged for Tokens.
Read the complete TOS, it will make your day.
So there you have it spelled out, the “tips” concept on its true nature: take money from the client on the front, take money from the client on the back, and then take money from the performer at least two times, if not more.
24% is the average payrate on the largest webcam sites, such as those from AWE. Plus there are a lot of lose ends: what about performers that have not submitted their information, yet they get tips? Cam4 keeps them.
Many people worked on the pay section to pair their bills and put food on their table. That’s gone. Now the clients that usually “pay” are mixed with the freeloaders, in chatrooms with hundreds or thousands of users, usually unable to talk to the performers, and cam4 expect them to buy tokens and just 24% of the money ends up in the performer’s pocket.
Good job.
Manny,
Your math is wrong. You must work for another cam site and are trying to confuse people. Here are the facts.
Tokens on cam4 cost from $.01699 (5000 for $84.95) to $.0198 (250 for $4.95)
Cam4 always pays out $.01/token
That means the payout is from 50.5% (.01/.0198) to 58% (.01/.01699) of the gross amount depending on what package that is purchased. Check that with any webcam site and you will see that it’s equal or better than all of them.
Cam4’s share ranges from 42% to 49.5%. But all the expenses are paid from Cam4’s share. For example, Cam4 does not charge the people buying tokens the transaction fees. These fees charged by the banks and VISA/Mastercard are over 11% of gross sales. If people credit back their transactions, Cam4 still pays the performers and covers these costs as well estimated at 2% of gross. Cam4 also pays for the customer service required by the performers and viewers and there is a significant amount of extra CS with the tipping. Cam4 estimates that these costs are 3% and has used a cost of 14% for servers/bandwidth. The total Cam4 cost would be about 30%, leaving about 20% profit for Cam4.
The calculation from gross sales is simply
Gross Sales = 50% Performer + 30% Cost + 20% Cam4 Profit
Cam4 always pay $.01/token regardless of how much paid or what the costs are so 50% of gross sales always ends up in the performers pocket. All your numbers just try to confuse the situation.
Net profit is profit made after expenses. Cam4 calculates Net profit like any other webcam sites so that the performers can compare the rates.
Sales of each token on Cam4 earn from $.01699 to $.0198
Subtract 30% expenses which leaves $.01386 to $.011893 remaining
Cam always pays out $.01 so the performer earns from 72% to 84% net profit (below)
$.01 / $.011893 = 84% net profit
$.01 / $.01386 = 72% net profit
Finally you complain about the payouts. Most cam websites have a minimum payout of $100, while Cam4 minimum is $50. If you get a check in the mail, it’s free.
If you choose to get paid by wire there is a $25 fee which is the average cost a bank charges and Cam4 pays to the bank. Western Union also charges money to do transfers. We can all agree that these charges are high but they are costs of the banks and Western Union and Cam4 cannot control them.
Cam4 is setting up Payoneer which will allow performers to apply for a Payoneer Mastercard/Debit card. Cam4 can then immediately transfer money to the performers cards for a fee of $2 for any amount of transfer. We hope to have this option available in a few weeks so that getting paid will be a lot easier, faster, and cheaper.
If you are a performer reading this, I urge you to check out the other cam sites and run these numbers for yourself. You will see that Cam4 has the best payouts.
“There are ten professional females that broadcast at specific scheduled times.”
@Tom,
I dont mean pro’s as in the super-shows, I mean professionals as in people who do cam-whoring for a living, and are piggybacking on cam4. Essentially I mean every chick who says they’ll do X for tips or doing private shows, and make a living out of it.
This is opposed to the ‘amateurs’ that I believe make this site great
people having problems with the tipping feature should make sure that the domain cam4bucks.com isnt blocked by addons like noscript or tools like peerblock.
other than that ctrl (or was it shift) + f5 to reload the page and discard whatever is in the cache.
There can very well be some tipping of those not doing as much as the general token recipient.
There are ten professional females that broadcast at specific scheduled times.
What gives your the impression that they are playing videos?
That always appeared even if i posted more than once…why?
“Your comment is awaiting moderation. This is just a spam counter-measure, and will only happen the first time you post here. Your comment will be approved as soon as possible”
Lizmy,
people spam the blog with all sorts of stuff and I don’t always get to it in a timely fashion, so moderation is turned on and I have to approve all the comments here. I guess it’s suppose to auto approve you after the first comment but that doesn’t seem to work.
Since a few days i don’t see the tips pane anymore? Did you abandon that idea?
Lizmy, not all all. It’s probably a problem with you only. There are a few people that are not getting the tipping widget. Some viewers and some performers. We are trying to figure out why. Can you email support kim@cam4.biz and describe what is going on, what type of browser you use, the version, your OS and any other info you can that would help us track down the problem.
@”Cam4 removed the $ tab because everyone can accept tips now.”
But the female section is now filled with professionals and videos offering to do skype/MSN shows for tokens. Yes, I understand why cam4 is doing this (to make money), but it has totally destroyed the brilliance of the site: amateur people on here for fun and because they like it.
The site IMO has changed (with only a few exceptions) to almost a standard cam-whore site. In the long run I fell this is going to severely reduce the number of amateurs coming here as they’ll see it as just another seedy site, and the number of Gold subscribers will massively drop off.
Also I would second the call for more moderators on the site. i have often flagged obvious scammers, advertisers etc. to no effect. At this stage I just ignore them and move on (more and more often these days to another site).
There most certainly are broadcasters that deserve to be chatted to and watched beyond the top 36 cams.
There are currently, at 3:15 PM Eastern United States Time (715 GMT [Greenwich Mean Time]), 938 users with their cam on… which is 8.7 times the total on the first three pages.
You really need to stop with the “there are so many good cams NOT on the frontpage” because its not true, if you dont make it on the frontpage, people dont want to see it thus the cam might be not so good…
And please, I beg you, if you dont want to bring the $ section back create a new section for FREE cams, dont tell me all cams are free, because they are not (anymore), its not fun to see most of the cams charging for their shows and tbh, the people on here charging for money are rejected from other sites because they dont make any money there. also there arent any cams of interested on page 2, 3 and beyond.
Why did you remove it in first place? you said because paypal dont accept payments for adult content, fair enough – but there are more services out, you even use on of those services to pay the girls with cam4bucks.
Yea I know you wont approve it because this post tells the truth, so, dear admin, take it as personal message and be more honest to your user base, Thank you.
And why does it take longer than 7 days to sort out who won cotm of september?
You really should sort out the programmer you have…
Muschi,
I approve all comments even if I don’t agree with them.
Cam4 removed the $ tab because everyone can accept tips now.
COTM for Sept is up.
tipping ruined cam4!!!
First of all,Only 8 comments,that’s kinda odd.Perhaps a member e-mail to everyone asking for feedback would be good(if not done already).I’m really interested to find out peoples thoughts on the tipping feature.
I find it hard to criticize a site that has given me copious amounts of masturbation material and a fun distraction for the last few years and even harder considering i saw 2 cams of the decade last tonight so just gonna give my take on the tipping thing so far.
Pro- Its attracting allot of new girls,most of these are pro cam girls but some are here for fun, but even the pro ones you can see after they are tipped enough(if u have plenty of time to spare)
Con- The site is starting to look and feel like 1 of those “seedy” cam girl sites with the front page usually dominated by pay girls.Earlier today,when i was on,i checked the ratio out of interest and around 25 out of the 36 cams were girls demanding tips to show….huge surge on eastern European and Philippine girls too which makes it feel even more like a pay site
Pro- its still free
Con- I’m not seeing allot of the usual amateurs on here and i fear this will drive them away
Pro- people have the chance to show appreciation and tip a girl they like on here
Con. So much room for fraud.Every time i visit,I find myself in major reporting people mode,so many videos being played and its odd how long they are going unnoticed.they are getting to the 1 spot and some stay up for well over 30 minutes.Perhaps more mods are needed.
Con- girls are taking advantage on occasions.some are leaving after getting tips without doing what was in their box,some are saying “connection errors” and restarting tip metre.There was 1 girl last night that asked for 6666 tokens to show,she got 4,250 and left saying times up,she didn’t get what she wants “see ya”.This just does not seem right to me.I’m aware nobody is obligated to tip but basic conduct here says this is wrong.Some girls are auctioning themselves off to the highest bidder for a cam show so guys are gonna waste tokens there as well.
Basically i agree with most others on the point of segregating the “tip-goal” girls from the amateurs here for fun.Creating a new section would be pretty basic for you guys and cure allot of headaches.No more spending 10 minutes to find a girl that’s here for her love to show off.
Anyways I love and continue to enjoy cam4.thanks for all the hard work guys
p.s I love how admin actually answers each question individually.Shows that our comments don’t go un-noticed :-)
Tennisking,
I was a little tardy at approving the comments. I actually do get a lot more comments in email. Thank you for the comments. This is all so new. We have a lot to work out and change. We are still trying to track down a few bugs and get some basic features in. We will be able to make more changes to it all in the next few months. It’s a big learning curve now.
There is a lot of good cams on Cam4 and it’s a shame we can’t have more on the main page. We need a way to highlight the other cams as well. Having the most popular on the main page is ok, most people are happy with that, but there is a lot of great stuff that people do not see.
This tip/token idea is so full of holes I gotta laugh. What happens in this situation? A performer promises a show at goal of 1500. I lay out 500. She ends the show at 1000 tokens, never hitting her goal, and therefore doesn’t do a show.
Am I out 500 tokens for nothing? How much time/effort is she required to expend before ending the broadcast is considered legitimate? Do you refund all tokens if any performer doesn’t do what was promised even though they might not be able to reach their stated goal?
Good luck tracking all that.
Dr Sin – in most cases where we have returned tokens it was pretty clearly fraud. Most people tip because they like the people that are in the cam. There is no expectation of a goal. And in almost all cases when the person says they will do x, they actually do it.
(Sorry for my bad english). My opinion, if you are thinking you see here a video please DO NOT report it IMMEDIATLY!… Because, before doing that, you must be ABSOLUTELY SURE that the show you are seeing in a room is really a recorded video, and not live… I wanted saying that, because each time I watch in cam4 good permormances, by people well known here for being true live performers, (sometime since many years), I can read too in the chat box some stupids people abusively typing “videos, videos” or “fake, fake”… Too much people thinking watching videos, just because the performers not answer immediatly of any request of his little person, and not understanding somebody in a sexual activity not read each of the sentences in chatbox at the same moment! If the performer show 2 or 3 fingers if a spectator asking that, that could be a proof it is live broadcoast, but if he doing not, it is probably just because he dont like some stupidities, and so, it is really not an enough proof of recorded video.
So, I really hope not some honnest performers could be victims of abusive denonciations.
Something is wrong with the usage. I see more and more of this “Higher tipper win a private show”
That is nasty way to use the tips system
“What if people promise something and do not do it once they receive tips?
If this happens and you lose tokens or you see video or any other fraudulent activity, please report it immediately to Cam4 support. Fraudulent performers will be banned and tokens returned to the people tipping them. ”
..
Airing a video or such I can understand banning for.
The bad side of this(at least the wording of it) though is going to be some people complaining because they didn’t get what they wanted even if the person never promised a thing. Then of course there is the jackasses who get off being jackasses towards people…this is a great avenue for them. I’ve already seen the “I gave you x tokens so why aren’t you showing now?”..they know why but if you give them an avenue to bitch about it they will use it.
Some people play games with the token system because its fun to do. Fun remember is a good chunk of this entire sites appeal.
Maybe in general you should simply say “Use your tokens at your own risk”. “Think before you give tokens” ..or something like that. That way you still cover the video etc crap but you don’t give an avenue for abuse.
Just be careful with implementing that “rule” (as worded) please is all I’m saying.
Aname – you are right. We have to keep our eyes open for scams from viewers as well.
It’s a terrific idea to allow tipping. BUT,
I’m majoring in Politics. and may one day be someone Give my real name AND ID to a porn site, are you fucking kidding me????????
I guess I’m not the only one who never shows his face, wants to have a life out of cam4, and still have a lot of success. You wasted it all.
Admin you should make it clear to everyone that by accepting tips in essence you are getting paid. Here in ths USA if you in fact do that you need to declare it on your TAXES. Please be specific about this and make it known whether this is taxable in the country of the Cammers’ origin.
Stokingit, there is a big disclaimer about this on Cam4bucks on the page that you request your payout. It says
Employment and Tax Information
Performers are NOT EMPLOYEES of CAM4
Cam4 (Surecom Corporation, NV) is a company based in Curacao, the Netherlands Antilles. If you are not a resident of Curacao, we as a foreign Corporation, are not required to file income reports for Independent Contractors
This DOES NOT MEAN that you are not subject to the Tax Rules of the country where you are resident and we NEVER encourage or assist anyone in avoiding payment of their appropriate taxes.
For your convenience, an annual record of your earnings is available within your Account.
I agree with Don, we don’t want to stumble upon “x tips until y” rooms. I wish you guys a cam4 would just remake the $$$ section and put all those people asking tips in there. It’s tiring to see people using videos to scam and people vanishing when they reach there token goal.
Also more cam4 moderators wouldn’t hurt either.
I’ve given this some thought and now have arrived at my personal conclusion that the Tipping System is some what of a double edged sword. I can see the benefit of this little piece of software, but also the negative aspects of it as well.
The Positive;
I noticed some broadcasters who normally were not the showing type now are becoming a little more adventurous wile in front of their web cams.
This I think has to do with the fact that they are able to see in token form that their viewers really do appreciate their broadcasts.
Like many of you here I too have my Cam4 favorites and having the tipping option at my finger tips enables me to show that there nightly, weekly broadcasts are appreciated, but this does not give me the right to demand them to show some thing, they show what they want to show.
There is some thing quiet exciting about seeing another individual on a web cam many miles away which you have no control over showing off their “hot bits”.
I am sure many of you will agree with me, after all, that’s why we are here in the first place. :p
The Negative;
Now, the down side to this little piece of software. The Spammers can see this as some thing that can and will be exploited. Though the use of video replays, but I have also heard cases of some broadcasters asking for tokens and doing the “midnight flip”. It is good to know that ” Admin” will punish them accordingly.
Now that the “Pay section” has been removed from the website I have noticed many “pay girls” are now changing there $ requests to TOKEN based shows.
This is not good, anyone new to Cam4 will think that Cam4 is just another Wank Fodder cam pay website, This isn’t what Cam4’s foundations were based on.
So, in conclusion I think the moderation of this new system needs to be watched really carefully. What I do suggest is that everyone has a special note in there profile section explaining that if they abuse the Token system they will be banned from Cam4 and all tokens that have will be lost.
Also letting broadcasters choose if they want the tip window to show on their broadcast is important, not all want this option. I think you need to get this “On/Off” option up and running , ASAP.
Cam4 can still be the best “FREE, FUN” adult chat site to be found on the internet, it’s up to you guys at Cam4 HQ now!
Anyway just my 2 cents, or in Cam4’s case, my 2 tokens. :P
Blue_master – appreciate your 2 cents
Stookie – we plan on taking care of the scammers. If you have been scammed, report who, who you are, what you spent. We will delete all scammers and return tokens.
Royale – tough to do as everyone can accept tips.
Uhm… Tiny ice, here.
A performer could come offline for a million reasons. A connection failure, a computer crash, a power black out, a mummy or sister or hubby or wife coming home before expected (LOL). Who will judge what is a “fraud”? As said in the other thread, i suggest to point the users attention to the fact that the Tips must be intended as “gifts”, not as “pay per view”, and there is no guarantee to get anything back, giving someone tips.
Just my two cents :)
Although I generally dislike tipping (it’s a great way to attract more women though), there are a few things I think would make it more acceptable:
1) From the pages, making some sort of indication of which users have set a tipping goal. People who do not want to stumble upon “x tips until y!” cams should be able to avoid them. Preferably, I think showing their goal status, goal number, and current total would be ideal.
2) It needs to be moderated well. If someone complains about fraud (and there needs to be a way for someone to do this after the user has stopped broadcasting), the cam4 mods and admins need to somehow be able to check whether fraud was committed. If looking at video logs is not possible, then the mods should at least be able to look at chat logs, status update logs, and goal and tipping logs to see what was promised and whether it was fulfilled. I don’t know what happens behind the scenes, so knowing what is being done to prevent fraud would be nice.
3) What happens if someone tips toward a set goal, but the goal is not met? Are they automatically refunded? This also touches a hypothetical scenario where someone tips toward a goal that IS met, but not until hours later. Can the tipper have the option to refund their tokens after a certain amount of time of waiting? Of course, this would only apply towards goals without time limits.
4) Although there’s really nothing that can be done about it and is just an unfortunate side effect: more gay and bisexual guys will advertise themselves as straight just to get more tips. Just something to sigh at, really.
5) I know some people have restarted their own cam in order to reset their total and make it seem like they hadn’t received much. I think a 6-hour history of how much in tips a user has made would suffice.
Don,
These are good idea. Have to think about the consequences of implementing them. If there is fraud or people set goals and then don’t perform what they said they would please contact Customer Support and let them know – who, what, and how many tokens you tipped. Fraudulent performers will be banned and tokens refunded to the members.
A few other things of note…
You sent out a general email during the beta. There are plenty of people who are not aware this blog is here. Another general email is perhaps in order now.
In this FAQ www.cam4bucks.com/aff/stats.php?page=faqs, you state top performers “can make over $500 per hour.” This seems a gross exaggeration. That would be 50,000 tokens. The most I have seen as a goal was 9,000 ($90) from your top performer and I did not stick around to see if it was reached. Please use a less misleading figure.
There are links at the bottom right of the broadcast window that should probably be available on the Token tab. Once you are live you aren’t clicking links and reading.
And lastly, the link “what’s this” from the “Tokens” tab does not work. https://beta.cam4.com/help/tipping/what.jsp
36gg,
yes we are going to update the help and FAQ. A sticky note may be a good idea as well for all the questions. The $500/hour was taken from another site. So we assumed it was possible. I have seen someone make $300/hour in the first couple of days. So I’m assuming it is not unreasonable. We should change it though to something more reasonable. The What’s This was a link to the beta info. They may have deleted that info since the beta is over. Perhaps we should replace that text with this blog info. Will check it out. Thanks for the comments and observations.
“Tipping is optional though and you do not have to ask for tips.”
As we have found, simply not asking for tips did not prevent people from tipping. Nor did requesting no tips. I am requesting that the tokens be returned to those who left them for me. If you would like a formal email to make the request please advise.
36gg. Ok, The tokens have been returned to the people tipping them.